tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3659330560006301380.post8446907054154107142..comments2023-11-05T04:28:41.397-08:00Comments on Strategic Sorcery: Magick Sucks.Jason Miller,http://www.blogger.com/profile/03034226672257024583noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3659330560006301380.post-5990768785840184332009-01-16T13:17:00.000-08:002009-01-16T13:17:00.000-08:00Magick can and does effect situations directly. It...<I>Magick can and does effect situations directly. It does not have to go through the sphere of personal sensation first or emanate out from changes in the self like a personal butterfly effect.</I><BR/><BR/>This is pretty easy to demonstrate, too, despite the confusion about it in parts of the magical community. If magick really did work like a "personal butterfly effect" something like the "Threefold Law" would actually happen. Maybe it wouldn't be "threefold", but you wouldn't be able to cast a curse without hitting yourself as well as the target. Since you <I>can</I> target other individuals without any injury to yourself if you're careful about it, magick must be able to work without passing through your own sphere first. <BR/><BR/><I>Magick works for those that can work it.</I><BR/><BR/>I sometimes think that what the psychologizers hate the most about practical magick is that there is a real talent involved in working it and not everyone can reach the same level of ability by putting in the same amount of work. I mean, this is how just about every other human ability works so it shouldn't be surprising, but there still seems to be this idea out there that magick is the one thing that <I>should</I> work the same for everyone. There certainly are people who get upset when confronted with empirical proof that it doesn't.Scott Stenwickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12389664381513219613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3659330560006301380.post-37124644632940369432009-01-16T02:50:00.000-08:002009-01-16T02:50:00.000-08:00Thank you for this post it caused a good ruccus on...Thank you for this post it caused a good ruccus on this Forum lol ..<BR/><BR/> http://www.evocationmagic.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=698Jon Buckleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00712984439394246149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3659330560006301380.post-10739763322135034872009-01-15T15:07:00.001-08:002009-01-15T15:07:00.001-08:00Dear Magus 007 (cool handle btw) I am not being to...Dear Magus 007 (cool handle btw) I am not being to literal. I understand the quote and have read almost everything DuQuette wrote. I am also not new at this, so please dont draw a comparison to people misunderstanding the Law. <BR/><BR/>You state: "So magic can't change anything but you but changing self changes the universe. It also implies that all magic goes through the sphere of sensation of the person first."<BR/><BR/>I say: POPPYCOCK!<BR/><BR/>Magick can and does effect situations directly. It does not have to go through the sphere of personal sensation first or emanate out from changes in the self like a personal butterfly effect. Magick works for those that can work it.Jason Miller,https://www.blogger.com/profile/03034226672257024583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3659330560006301380.post-21256846506069887362009-01-15T15:07:00.000-08:002009-01-15T15:07:00.000-08:00The magician works on the microcosm to change the ...<I>The magician works on the microcosm to change the macrocosm. In otherwords by understanding your own sphere of sensation you are changing the sphere of sensation of the bigger universe.</I><BR/><BR/>Yes, and in my experience this is pretty much what Lon actually thinks about magick. But that being so, I think that the quote in question is not the best choice for the first thing you see on his web page because it doesn't really convey his actual views without additional explanation.Scott Stenwickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12389664381513219613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3659330560006301380.post-62700567421795358962009-01-15T13:19:00.000-08:002009-01-15T13:19:00.000-08:00I think you are being a bit literal about the quot...I think you are being a bit literal about the quote in question. The magician works on the microcosm to change the macrocosm. In otherwords by understanding your own sphere of sensation you are changing the sphere of sensation of the bigger universe. It is a bit like the Crowley quote which says "do what you wilt be the whole of the law" people assumed he was talking about doing what you like (which if taken literally he did) but finding ones true will is a religious alignment with your higher. So magic can't change anything but you but changing self changes the universe. It also implies that all magic goes through the sphere of sensation of the person first.Nick Farrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01663533542726414450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3659330560006301380.post-90104703408994617352009-01-15T12:05:00.000-08:002009-01-15T12:05:00.000-08:00Magick is for those that want to not only find enl...<I>Magick is for those that want to not only find enlightenment, liberation, and get that gnostic look behind the curtain of reality to see what the backstage is like, but for those that want to use that knowlege and power to effect the world around them.</I><BR/><BR/>YES. Way too many self-proclaimed "magicians" people go around these days talking about magick like it's just another system of psychotherapy. Some of that probably comes from the skeptical attitude toward magick that we are raised with in this culture - as long as you're talking about psychology you're safe and nobody looks at you funny, but when you start talking about genuine sorcery regular folks get uncomfortable.<BR/><BR/>Lon DuQuette is friend of mine and I've always found it odd that he decided to put that particular quote up on his web site. His views on magick are quite a bit more complex and nuanced than the quote would suggest.Scott Stenwickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12389664381513219613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3659330560006301380.post-64474903592216818252009-01-15T09:28:00.000-08:002009-01-15T09:28:00.000-08:00I just posted a reference to this post on Moloch's...I just posted a reference to this post on Moloch's evocactionalmagics Yahoo group. Somebody made a post that personal growth was the entire point of magic, so I simply had to reference this =)Quaero Luxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13108514700080897587noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3659330560006301380.post-20902715179738112642009-01-14T18:10:00.000-08:002009-01-14T18:10:00.000-08:00fine by me as long as you let me know what forum i...fine by me as long as you let me know what forum it is so I can lurk and see the response:-)Jason Miller,https://www.blogger.com/profile/03034226672257024583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3659330560006301380.post-32823372600037558802009-01-14T18:00:00.000-08:002009-01-14T18:00:00.000-08:00With your permission, I'd like to post a copy of t...With your permission, I'd like to post a copy of this blog entry to a forum I visit - obviously giving full credit to you and making it quite clear I'm not the author. I've been wanting to make a point like this for a while, but you beat me to the mark and probably expressed yourself a tad clearer.<BR/><BR/>If you do give permission, if it's also okay I'll just do some minor editing to fix up typos (I'm a grammar nazi), but obviously not change the content at all.<BR/><BR/>Regards,<BR/>Samuel JohnsonSamuel Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02580888190711085880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3659330560006301380.post-33356231146393641102009-01-14T14:44:00.000-08:002009-01-14T14:44:00.000-08:00It does indeed, but again, I say that unless you p...It does indeed, but again, I say that unless you plan to follow that up with outward thaumaturgy as the doing, that magick is inefficient at the task of aligning yourself to the vibrations of the universe. Meditation, prayer, and contemplative trance will get you there faster. Crowley knew this well, which is why he stressed the Yoga and meditation aspect of his training. Everything magick does to accomplish this is done with the intent of being able to isolate and exploit various points of quintessesence and apply them to alter manifest reality.Jason Miller,https://www.blogger.com/profile/03034226672257024583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3659330560006301380.post-27314762616354714532009-01-14T05:41:00.000-08:002009-01-14T05:41:00.000-08:00I did not mean to imply that meditation and happy ...I did not mean to imply that meditation and happy thoughts is all there is to it. Trust me we are on the same page when it comes to newage feel good crap. <BR/><BR/>Get your hands dirty, blow yourself up a few times and learn. It will probably be put on my tombstone one day :) <BR/><BR/>I have just found that the simplicity of the statement about changing yourself is overlooked. Aligning yourself to the vibrations of the universe puts you in harmony with the rest and makes the process of doing much more efficient in my humble opinion.Soror Gimelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01895588521129363780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3659330560006301380.post-41081535377669988132009-01-13T17:35:00.000-08:002009-01-13T17:35:00.000-08:00I do love your rants Jay...PI do love your rants Jay...<BR/><BR/>PPersephonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11813940257719875150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3659330560006301380.post-31768237871752668742009-01-13T17:03:00.000-08:002009-01-13T17:03:00.000-08:00I am not arguing that changing yourself is bad or ...I am not arguing that changing yourself is bad or not part of magick, merely that its not all that there is to magick.Jason Miller,https://www.blogger.com/profile/03034226672257024583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3659330560006301380.post-4285555336002096942009-01-13T16:14:00.000-08:002009-01-13T16:14:00.000-08:00Sometimes the truth of a statement does not show u...Sometimes the truth of a statement does not show up at first blush. Perhaps, you change yourself so that you know what exactly it is that you want to effect. Getting what I "wanted" early on the path has caused all sorts of pain and suffering :) It also caused all sorts of joy when I figured out that I really didn't want it and more importantly why :) <BR/><BR/>People get into magick for all sorts of reasons. Some are more effecient at the process than others. Everyone measures success by different yardsticks.Soror Gimelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01895588521129363780noreply@blogger.com