-Harry S Truman-
Wow. Yesterdays post was really supposed to just be a throw away. I zipped it off just because I have'nt made a post in a few days and wanted to keep the ball rolling. Not only did it generate 11 responses so far here, and two on the LiveJournal simulcast, but generated response posts on
I am not going to make any additional arguments. I agree with what some have said, and as far as Frater R.O., we are so far apart on this one that we will have to just agree to disagree. Since RO is both a wise and powerful magus I am sure he will realize that he is wrong sone day :-)
I do however want to clarify a few points that I didnt take the time to go into in detail on yesterday.
ON HARMONIOUS MACHINERY: I have had a similar vision to what RO describes. My interpretation however is different. From the perspective of eternity it has all already happened. Just as the 2-6 square in flatland could only percieve cross-sections of the 3-d cube, we can only percieve cross sections of time and probability. When we have "the vision" we get a glimpse at the whole of time and perhaps probability. Each being appears complete from birth to death and extended into infinite probability. But again, this is simply something that has happened, and is eternally happening, not something orchestrated by an outside designer.
ON GOD: Though I reject the kind of calvinist pre-destination that rejects the concept of free-will, I DO believe that consiousness is a fundamental building block of reality and that the whole itself may be called GOD. I also believe that God has a general direction that the universe is guided in. The best explanation of this view is actually given by a phsyicist in the book "The Cosmic Jackpot, Why The Universe is Just Right for Life. "
Essentially, consiousness evolves to a point where it can effect the big bang so that it can evolve to a point where it can effect the big bang. Now I would add to this a lot that Dr Davies does not, such as certain beings that are born with advanced potential and so on, but this in no way should be equated with an outside being flipping switches and pulling strings to cause you to get a ticket so that you can meet someone in court that introduces you to the person who teaches you about webdesign....
ON THE OATH OF THE ABYSS: In 2001 I took the oath of the abyss: "I will interpret every phenomenon as a particular dealing of God with my soul". This may seem to be an endorsement of pre-destination but it is not. It is a recognition of the inseparability between consiousness and manifestation, between emptiness and form, and between cause and effect. In essence anyone that has a genuine understanding of Karma can take this oath with no problem at all.
ON CAUSALITY AND KARMA: To be clear, when people generally say "everything happens for a reason" they are usually refering to there being some grand design that incorporates them loosing and uncle, getting fired, being a slacker, and so on. I do understand that the reason my car starts in the morning is that I put my ket in the ignition and turned it. I also realize the inetrplay of karmic traces that follow from event to event, and life to life. My statement should not be a rejection of cause and effect. See any text on the Interdependant Stages of Origination for my general beliefs on this, save on the first stage. I don't buy the "universe created out of ignorance" idea.
ON SPIRITUAL OR DIVINE INTERVENTION: Yes I do think that spirits, angels, and the divine itself can intervene in events. If everything was predestined than they wouldnt need to intervene in events. However, whether your best friend or your guardian angel, or both, pulls you out of a burning wreck, its just an action.
In closing I would say that to me the very value in being human is the honing and development of Will. There is a Jewish story that tells of God asking the angels to bow before man. The Angels, unimpressed by the little bags of protoplasm that we appear to me, ask what is so great about man? God points to a few animals and plants and asks the angels to name them. The angels respond " you have not told us their names yet". God asks man to name them and man says "OK, Let's call this a Deer. Lets call this an Oak.."
The angels are Awed by mans power to exercise Free Will and name the things in Gods creation, and rightly bow down.
We are not rules by pre-destination like puppets on strings, nor are we ruled by the push and pull of cause and effect that generate the endless stream of attachments and aversions, wants and whims, that animals are a slave to. We are human. Thats the whole point