Working through the last bit of my formation process with my ordaining Bishop. After looking through several liturgies that we were considering, including JSM Wards Liturgy for his Orthodox Catholic Chuch, also known as the Abbey of Christ the King, which hasnt been performed in decades to my knowlege. I mentioned to him that we would need to replace the Nicene creed with something else. At first this seemed to be a deal breaker and the last few years of study would be wasted. I walked away from proceeding with the OTO over Liber Oz, and was prepared to walk away from this as well.
Thankfully we have come to an agreement. He would sing the Nicene creed in Latin as part of his performance of the eucharist, and when it came time for my ordination we would say a crede of my choosing. I am looking at the one from the Harard Mass or the +Hoellers Crede as possibilities.
5 comments:
On the one hand, I'm like, what's wrong with the nicene crede? (Seriously, interested in your take.)
On the other, it's impressive that you're taking this seriously. You're not just getting hats and titles for the hat and title.
You do get one of those cool fish hats as a bishop, right? (It's not Dagon, it's not it's not, it's not!)
You're welcome to use the AJC Act of Gnosis, if you like:
What makes us free is the gnosis
of who we were,
of what we have become;
of where we were,
of wherein we have been cast;
of whereto we speed,
of wherefrom we are redeemed;
of what birth truly is,
and of what rebirth truly is.
I'm sure we borrowed it from somewhere, but I forget where.
Can you remind me of who's doing your ordination and what church you'll be affiliated with afterwards? I think you told me before, but I have the memory of a gold fish some days. Feel free to email father.rassbach@johannite.org if you don't want to post it out here.
Thanks, -Scott+
I am being ordained by Tau Nemesius who is affiliated with the Glallacian rite of the Old Catholic Church. He was made Bishop by +Lewis Keizer and +Mikael of the Old Templar Church.
I will not be affiliating with one church after my ordination and remain truly autocephalous for now.
I was already ordained Priest by +Shawn Knight, but wanted to do it again sub-conditione through +Nemesius because we have worked together in our Sangreal Sodality for so long.
Basically the Nicene Creed is not so much a statement of what you believe in as it is a statement of what you don't believe in. It was specifically designed so that each part counteracts a specific heresy like Arianism, Manicheanism, Apollinarianism, and Monarchianism Modalism, Patripassianism, and Sabellianism. I am rather uncomfortable with this idea, as I do not as a rule shut myself down to different ideas. The world is to big for that.
I would note that Origen, who I am quite down with, is considered by many to be an Arianist.
Specific problems for me and the crede are that I do not necessarily believe that Christ was the ONLY son of God.
I do not believe that "he will come again to judge the living and the dead". At least not in the way that the crafters of the Crede understood it.
I believe that the Holy Spirit is feminine in nature and is synonymous with the Sophia as Christ is with teh Logos. Therefore the references in the Creed to the Holy Spirit as "he" doesnt sit well with me.
Furthermore I fall in with the Eastern Church when it comes to the Filioque clause, seeing it as yet another attempt by Rome to lessen the impact of the Sophia or feminine aspect of divinity, which I consider as equally as vital as the Logos if not moreso.
Given your remarks re the Nicene Creed in your last response on this thread, I'd be really interested to hear your take on what defines a Christian, as opposed to a person who agrees with some tenets of Christianity.
Most (maybe all) mainstream denominations today consider the Nicene Creed pretty central to their beliefs, though like you say, it's much less an affirmation than a list of rejected heresies. I'm certainly not saying that they have the final word in the matter, either.
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